Episode 84: Nourishing Creativity: Visibility Medicine, Photography, and Perimenopause with Danielle Cohen
Podcast
Episode 84: Visibility Medicine, Photography, and The Creative Journey with Danielle Cohen
“I think starting is such a big thing and for so many people… I try to refer to it as, “a right size amount of pressure.” And this might resonate for anybody out there who has for example, an ADHD diagnosis, or identity, or just even like you see that in yourself oftentimes there can be this belief that one can carry for a long time that they just don't (start). They are procrastinators. But we've learned that there are just some but some brains that need a certain right size pressure in order to mobilize…” — Danielle Cohen
Welcome to this week’s episode of Show Up Fully! I’m joined by Danielle Cohen, the founder of Visibility Medicine and a creative brand photographer with a background in healing modalities, business, and accounting.
First, I share the breakthroughs I had with Danielle while working together in her Visibility Medicine program (check it out below!). From there, we dive into Danielle’s professional journey.
Danielle details how she weaves her multifaceted background into her business and how she became a brand photographer as a commitment to her YES. We chat about authenticity, how Danielle defines creativity, and her relationship to it through photography.
Danielle also shares the importance of engaging the senses to support her creative process, plus her trifecta for navigating feeling stuck.
Join me as Danielle describes her creative journey as a perimenopausal woman and brand photographer — and stay until the end of the episode to hear about soul work as Danielle reads a quote from Clarissa Pinkola Estés!
Topics Covered:
Carla’s connection to Danielle through her Visibility Medicine program
Danielle’s photography origin story and the power of authenticity
Danielle’s definition of and relationship to creativity
Practices for cultivating and nourishing creativity
A trifecta for navigating creative blocks and feeling stuck
The power of making time for creativity and soul work
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, or on your favorite podcast platform.
xo Chef Carla
Resources Mentioned:
Read Clarissa Pinkola Estés’ quote here
Women Who Run With the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estés
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Wherever you are listening, please rate, review + subscribe to Show Up Fully. Send the podcast to your friends, post in your stories on Instagram & tag me @chefcarlacontreras and use the hashtag #showupfully
About Danielle Cohen
Using a range of coaching, creativity, consulting, and spiritual practices Danielle helps forces of good with big dreams birth and sustain their most aligned work (the paid and unpaid kind). Her work is trauma informed, loving, powerful, and rooted in anti-oppressive values.
Find + Work With Danielle:
Subscribe to Danielle’s newsletter on her Website
Follow Danielle on Instagram
Learn more about Visibility Medicine
00:01.56
chefcarla
Danielle thank you so much for coming on the podcast I am so grateful for you in your work I want to preface this conversation that I've worked with Danielle in her program visibility medicine and. This is something deeply personal for me to share with you but I'm going to share it right now with you I feel like I'm a very visible person but I feel at times I'm very invisible in my business especially because I do content creation for others for brands. For other people and it might even be white listed and not even have my name on it and so in this way Danielle has really supported me. I have read your newsletter is one of those newsletters that I open I maybe have a cup of tea and I read and you know I really feel
02:47.87
chefcarla
Supported by your newsletters I feel supported by your shares I feel supported and I will use the word authenticity and some people you know might think that with a grain of salt but there was so much richness there and I want to say that. We are on nourishing creativity. We are on the podcast that I've wanted to do actually for a year and a half and working through your program I was able to move through some of my fears especially of letting go. Show up fully and or weaving it together into my work and also launching my substack which felt really scary to me and I want to be really authentic and I feel like this is like the biggest introduction but I also feel like. Your work has helped me move through so many spaces in my life including my business including motherhood and I do want to share one of your quotes before you tell us all the wonderful things that you are is my mothering supports. My business.
04:02.33
chefcarla
My business supports my mothering. It's just it's just a guiding light right now for me. Thank you Danielle.
04:10.92
danielle
Um, thank you Carla! Thank you thank you in so many ways I mean to receive and hear all of that. Um, of course it's just beautiful. Takes me back through the journey I remember your first email.
04:26.75
danielle
And the work can be subtle in a certain kind of way and it still is so profound right? because really, it's about you just being more of you.
04:43.83
chefcarla
Yeah.
04:50.61
chefcarla
Yeah, it like makes me want to cry because you've you've brought me your work has brought me back to a place where I remember those glimmers of the things that I used to have fun with.
04:53.80
danielle
A.
05:08.90
danielle
Um, yeah, it gets to be fun.
05:14.10
chefcarla
Yeah, it's beautiful. Can you tell us more about your work because I've given a glimpse and a depth of visibility medicine and what that is but you do so much including photography
05:33.73
chefcarla
I'm really interested in the journey with money as well.
05:37.85
danielle
Um, sure I mean let's see in terms of like titles I hold or things that I do you know what? the names are mother a mother. That's the thing I've been the longest I've been a mother. More than half of my life I turned fifty this year and I had my first child at 20 I was pregnant with him at 21 and I had 3 by the time I was 27 and another one at 35 and more than a decade I was a single parent. Of my first 3 and I've often also referred to myself as a re-partnered single parent which is no reflection on my partner but simply that um it's a different way of being for many of us and and ah. Doesn't necessarily change just because we're re-partnered although circumstances change. So that's a whole other thread I am a permenopausal woman which isn't necessarily my work except for that I'm in a body and this is the body that is the. Vessel for whatever work I'm doing and my permenophasle journey started like ten years ago and has been quite wild and has had some complex threads as so many do so I've actually decided that I'm going to do kind of a report from the road.
07:12.17
danielle
Ah, workshop around it in a couple of months so that's exciting. Yeah I think this is just you know there's this thread in my work I was a doula years and years and years and years ago I was an energy worker and body worker starting before my first baby. So like.
07:16.72
chefcarla
I Can't wait.
07:30.57
danielle
Early 90 s and I also worked in accounting so there's always been this like business math and healer work. You know and photography was the thing that I did in sort of this angsty way on the side or and by that I mean I'll say this. And never ever ever saw myself as a creative person. Um I had a different definition for that which is part of why and it just wasn't what was reflected back to me as a formid in in any of my formative years it wasn't my experience. It wasn't I heard I was smart. Heard I was you know was only it was my intellect that was pointed to not creativity and what we hear what? what people see and reflect back to us is can be so profoundly shaping in terms of our sense of self and our identity but I was in awe. Of art and artists and love photography. But I also it was like I was collecting evidence so almost a forensic quality to it I needed to see myself I needed to see my life reflected back to me. In a variety of ways I mean there was parts where I didn't have this language for it. But as someone who, um, has lived with body dysmorphia. It was a very um.
09:03.46
danielle
There was this relationship between me taking photographs myself again. This is more years and years and years ago and then seeing and being with those photos of what did that mean and who is this person I'm looking at and that's not what I see in the mirror or it is and I don't like you know all that kind of grappling or my mothering. And doubting myself I mean it's no no small thing to have 3 boys and 1 of me and be so in over my head so much of the time and and I had such huge high hopes for my mothering and how it was all going to look and um.
09:39.91
danielle
And then I'd see the photos and I'd see like oh yeah, there's there's some beauty here. There's goodness here and it's not just the picture I paint in my head so anyway, photography was always there in a variety of ways more in this like I said it's. I don't think I've said it like this before but I feel like it's almost more forensic than just documenting right? It was like I was looking for clues looking for evidence looking for what's really the truth. Um, and I love the process I love having the having the camera in my hands. Is like this way that I'm profoundly intimately present with like some separation that allows me to both gives me license to look and to really look while also giving me some stimuli separation. So I'm not overwhelmed so it's great for me for things like if I met. Ah if I were to go to a rally or a March or whatever. It's usually in the role of photographer. That's a much more that's that's how I roll anyway, that's a bit of a day of a maybe a bit of a segway but it all is what. Ah, big part of what informs my work um including money right? like there has been so many things that I have had to learn I had a relatively strong very foundational basis in terms of business math.
11:13.60
danielle
But I didn't translate. It was much more in a corporate sense right? It wasn't translated into my personal life significantly and when I started my business. It was not I have a vision that I want to bring into the world. It was holy shit. Is it okay that I swear. Okay I have to have a I need a job and I have a baby and 3 young boys 1 going into adolescent and the others were going to go right? behind him and I and I was in a family transition I needed to be present.
11:33.90
chefcarla_77
Oh yeah, go ahead.
11:51.91
danielle
Also had some body stuff so I knew that going into or back into a corporate environment. It wasn't going to work I'd end up spending so much money on child care I wouldn't make anything so ah, it was a true quandary of I have bills to pay and babies to feed and. This needs to happen I literally sat down with a paper and pen with 2 columns and wrote what can I do and listed the things I was capable of and who can I do them for and listed the people that I knew in my sphere that needed the things that I had to offer. That's how my business started. It was not like I said I mean I work with visionaries and I will say if I were my client I probably stop me right there and say you did have a vision. You had a vision for being able to be present with your kids let your body move at a pace she needed to. While making the money you need it to make that's a vision right? It may not necessarily be as outwardly oriented right? that came later like I was able to make meaning as I went I was able to orient towards my values as I went. Expand those values beyond just the survival ones that were in front of me which were deeply rooted in love and care anyway. So all of those things and and that journey started um, 2011.
13:25.80
danielle
Mean it was kind of brewing before that but really doors opened you know around 2000 eleven. So we're talking about twelve years ago yeah so that's that journey has has evolved brand photography kind of happened believe it or not on its own. There's. There's a lengthier origin story but photography became something that I was asked to do and I said yes I've done a lot of saying yes right? A lot of I know our nose are so important and so incredible. But our yeses are as well and our yeses are. As well and it really depends too on our season of life and what we are able to um, our authentic capacity and we're using the word authentic a lot today which I think is really cool and fun and maybe we're reclaiming it because I think that authenticity. Is something we all crave so deeply and yet it's gotten a little bit of a bad rap because it was you know commodified thrown around played out if if there can be such a thing I don't think any of us actually believe authenticity itself can be played out but sometimes the words can start to feel. A little empty in the way that they're trampled on and slung around but it is something we deeply we deeply crave and want and both in terms of just being our authentic selves. But when when I talk about authentic capacity I'm like let's be real I'm all for expanding.
14:58.21
danielle
You know, expanding our capacity to hold more to be more to allow ourselves more and also let's honor our cause onto authentic Capacity. We don't need to hurt ourselves anymore than the world can do anyway. Ah, pause right? there I'm not sure if that was a very useful answer to your question.
15:17.64
chefcarla_77
Ah, oh my goodness it is It is everything and you touched upon creativity and I want to dive a little bit deeper because that's one of the questions that I would love to know is how do you Define Creativity. And I I guess I want to know at this moment because it feels like listening to you that there's been an evolution of that definition.
15:42.44
danielle
For sure I would say that you my initial response when you say how do you Define Creativity a part of me wants to say I don't like who am I to Define creativity. But what I will say is that. We are inherently innately biologically Creative Beings. It's undeniable and that was a rather liberating thought for me to recognize that like oh this is. It's not a matter of whether you're creative or not that part is. Ah, given for every human being and not only are human beings right? But for every sentient being as far as I can tell maybe there's some exceptions in there. Um, but what do we do with it and how do we use it and I Also don't want to ever. Water down or take lightly those who really really work to hone their artistic craft. So while I think that creativity is absolutely innate and universal and it's not something you Earn. It's. Who you are There is a difference between that and the honing of or discipline of a particular creative practice or artistic practice. Yeah, That's how that's my answer.
17:13.25
chefcarla_77
So cool. So do you have a current relationship with creativity I and I want to see this in a way that leads into. Photography because I want to explore that a little bit especially because that's one of the lens using a pun here but 1 of the lenses that I use to create but is there a relationship with creativity perhaps in your writing or photography or however, you might.
17:48.16
chefcarla_77
Explain it I would love to know how do you approach those subjects.
17:52.68
danielle
I Feel like there's a certain part of me that is very like wrestling with it agitated never really satisfied and. And that's not something that I think is not is particularly useful I don't I don't I don't feel ah a kind of way where I'm like yep and that's my creative process that doesn't really feel True. It actually feels like it's a part of me that. Maybe we'll always be there but could use some growing up a bit and and I I Love that part Anyway, like I I see all of that and it's not the biggest priority in my life. So I just allow it to be. And it can be kind of frustrating because there is this desire for me with photography. There's always been this this desire to create something and then there's what I create and then and there's a gap and I'm always wanting to try to close that gap between. The overwhelming beauty that I see in my mind or see when I'm looking through the lens and what I actually create in the picture and so some of that is learning new technical skills. Some of that is um, a lot of that.
19:22.76
danielle
Is not giving up and not and not stopping to what am I how I trying to say this making sure I continuously pick up my camera. There are times like I've been through quite a phase actually of not picking it up to where I started to feel like is it over. Right? because I mean you're a photographer I don't know how this is for you. But for me it it. There's a compelled feeling to pick up my camera There's a compelled feeling to I need to photograph this I want to photograph this and then it kind of went dormant and yeah, there's been this moment of like is it over. And then what I decided was well put yourself in some situations. Give yourself some assignments and open your books again because I only take a certain amount of clients each year and what I find every single time is oh right? Sometimes the doing has to come before the inspiration. That is not news to anyone but holy shit can I forget? yeah.
20:28.24
chefcarla_77
I Identify with this a lot because I have this and I love that you use that word Angsty
21:06.31
chefcarla_77
We started this call and we chatted before um about you doing yoga this morning and I'm wondering because I'm not sure this is my personal practice is that I have.
21:26.15
chefcarla_77
Some rituals I have some ways that I kind of ease into this creative process and I call it nourishing my creativity but I'm wondering if you have anything that supports your process of creativity
21:44.37
chefcarla_77
There was someone that came on this podcast that said that she lights a candle and that's just like her thing but I'm wondering if you could share anything around that.
21:51.78
danielle
Um, yeah yeah I mean I tend to have like I like to think of it as like. Because I love this bag you know Mary Poppin's big carpet bag. So and I love her. So let's pretend that I have that and it's filled with practices and the reason why is partly because of how my brain is wired and partly because of some of my bodies.
22:05.89
chefcarla_77
Yeah.
22:23.73
danielle
Needs which can be quite dynamic and changing. Um and some of it because I do have 4 Children One who homeschools three who are now in their twenty s but are still deeply ah in my day-to-day life point is is that I I think these are like the revolving door years you know of in terms of the activity in my house and the stimuli all of these things so all of these things with a big fat bold underlining how my particular brain and neurology works. Um I crave consistency and i. Need it to be flexible. Ah so some kind of movement some kind of something ideally, it feels good and ideally you know yoga works really well. Dance works really well walks in nature work really well those are like my.
23:22.85
danielle
And actually palottis those those are the ones that if I can if my body's in a place where I can and all the other things and sometimes that's ah, a 5 minute practice it's rarely more than a half an hour again that's my that's what works for me. Um.
23:35.59
chefcarla_77
Yeah.
23:38.30
danielle
But that definitely puts me in a more agile state and flow. There's more room for flow of all kinds when I move my body. Um.
23:56.13
danielle
The other thing there's 2 other things that are big for me 1 is making sure that I experience beauty so beauty for me perpetuates beauty and I'm I'm just a. Highly sensitive human being in all of the ways and that means that using my senses right? My smell like very literally sight smell touch taste all of these things help me to. Tap into what I'm feeling and yeah, it's like it begets more creativity. The beauty begets more beauty I don't know if that makes sense a lot of it is really about the but my body um and the other one is to make sure I'm living life enough right? Like. What am I am I caught in all of the requirements of the day to day which certainly is a valid part of living life and also am I seeing what else is going on in the world am I out. My watching the leaves change am I you know just like interacting with the world so that there's and other material mixing within my own internal material and the interrelational material of my household and.
25:28.81
danielle
The ecosystem of humans that I'm in contact with yeah.
25:31.89
chefcarla
I Love the mixing of the other elements coming into this and how does that move through the space I'm really interested.
25:51.42
chefcarla_77
And maybe you don't define it this way. But this is my definition as creative blocks and sometimes I get really stuck like literally like deep in the mud but I have an assignment still do and I.
26:05.80
danielle
Yes.
26:10.31
chefcarla_77
Ah, and it's like ok well I'm going to move through that I'm wondering if there there are ways in your work that you move through things that may feel sticky.
26:23.12
danielle
Yes I think it's a little different like so if if I'm talking about photography and I'm feeling stuck. Um and because the majority of my photography is with another human being I mean I will occasionally do.
26:39.41
danielle
You know book photos or object photos for my clients but mostly it's another human and so if I'm feeling blocked I will set the tone pick the place you know I'll find where we're going to be. I'll choose somewhere that has some of those elements some of those sensorial elements that will add layers to my own that will spark me right? The time of day the light the smell of the trees. You know, whatever that sort of thing Although to be honest I don't. Because it's so about the other person and I find humans Unendingly beautiful and fascinating I know enough to know that like I might be feeling a little bit flat about it. But the second that I'm with that person. It's On. And it's so good and I don't really have to bring whole lot to it because because in that sense too. I'm not. You know there are times where we're intentionally creating ah like a curated piece of art but more often what I'm doing is I'm in the role of the Witness. And I'm creating opportunity for you to bring an aspect of you or all of you and then my job is to capture and witness that as much as Possible. So It's a it's a little different right than if it were like let's go do a session.
28:14.85
danielle
Um, that embodies and expresses aphrodite that would be a different kind of creative process than a lot of what I'm doing and is also Amazing. So when I get stuck in my creative process with things Like. Um, creating a course or a module or a piece of you know piece of material for something that lives inside of something Usually the big idea is easy excuse me but then like how do I want to bring this alive in a way that's going to be really effective. Um, and and I feel actually I feel like I let myself off the hook there a little bit because there's also a way in which I want my photography better all the time. So yes, that witnessing aspect all of that's cool, but there's still a way in which I I can again feel that. Grappling kind of Angsty it literally I picture as I'm saying this I picture myself like laying on the floor and stomping my hands and feet like this frustrated toddler that's like but I wanted to be better and that is often an invitation for me to.
29:31.21
danielle
Look at look at other art and get inspired. What are some of the other ways I could how else could I see this. How else could I be looking at this and what new technical skill could I learn. You know it's kind of like cooking and I'm no chef well I shouldn't say that. I am very much a home chef and it's more for me about like technique and ingredients than it is about recipe. So when I'm stuck there too I'm like well give me 1 new spice to play with.
29:58.80
chefcarla
Yeah.
30:05.32
danielle
Or give me a creative constraint I have one of my kids who always is like I let they like my my poor food best and that you know he can say that fair enough right? Um, the food that I make when we have no have had no groceries right? and it always is like this amazing because you work with what you have.
30:24.45
danielle
And you can bring out neighbors So all of those things Creative constraints a new ingredient or New Technique I feel like that's actually kind of the trifecta right.
30:33.18
chefcarla
I want to repeat that so there's creative restraints. There's a new technique and what was the third one a new ingredient I feel like this applies to not only cooking but to everything else right.
30:39.87
danielle
A new ingredient.
30:47.44
danielle
Yeah, right? like even with photography right? So if we have either a new subject. A new environment, a new piece of equipment or a new technique. We've learned like a new technical thing. We've learned that she. Any one of those things changes it or when we have an assignment like that's that creative constraint right? I have to do or for're photographing something but we only have 1 window for our light. That's a creative constraint so we work you know all of those things can create.
31:15.58
chefcarla_77
It is yeah.
31:21.98
danielle
Opportunities for thinking about something in a different way which I really think in So So many ways is what creativity is how do I think about this in a different way and then bring it to form I Guess the creative act itself is like the bringing it to form I don't know that's why. Ah, hesitate to define. It.
31:40.59
chefcarla_77
But I think that you've given me so many things and hopefully the listeners So many things to really consider about creativity and things that hopefully you know I'm going to actually take this this into my own work of. Because I know using a different prop for me because my work is food styling so using a different prop or using a different surface I might be not wanting to like earlier I said not wanting to do something or you know.
32:17.41
chefcarla_77
I Feel like maybe I'm not inspired to create X Y and Z recipe but I know I have that new surface and you're right, you said something about as soon as you were with your person that you're shooting the person that that you're doing the photo shoot like it's on.
32:32.55
danielle
Um, and this.
32:36.40
chefcarla_77
And I feel like it's the same with my own work that once that surface is on the table Once that new prop is on the table. It's on. It's already started and I think that that starting process. Maybe do you have anything with that starting process or is it really just showing up.
32:50.20
danielle
Um, this guy.
32:55.29
chefcarla_77
Um, and I don't want to say just actually I do want to say just I want to say that intentionally like like like putting putting yourself in the chair and creating the the course module.
33:00.59
danielle
Um, yeah.
33:07.81
danielle
yeah yeah I mean I think the starting is such a big thing and for so many people we need often need even if we don't like it us there. what I what I try to refer to as a right size amount of pressure. And this might resonate for anybody out there who has for example, an adhd diagnosis oftentime or identity or or just even like you see that in yourself oftentimes there can be this. Um this belief that one can carry for a long time that they just don't. There are procrastinators. But we've learned that there are just some but some brains that need a certain right size pressure in order to mobilize and and what I also think about with that is I think sometimes we're cooking like. It doesn't look like we're doing anything but it's actually gestating or baking or whatever metaphor or literal thing that you want to call it but there is a process that's happening that's happening that's happening and then you go to do the thing. And the thing that you have been trying to get yourself to do for three months actually only takes you an hour to do but those three months weren't probably maybe as passive as you thought they were maybe there was actual important invisible work happening so that you could show up and do that thing in the hour
34:42.40
danielle
And that I I find useful because it takes a layer of the suffering off of the shaming of what's wrong with me I don't have my shit together kind of thing and I think the other thing is just starting right? So It's like you know sitting down and writing I have no idea what to. Do with this next piece like name the problem but do it with the medium so same with the camera if I'm feeling really really flat Fine. Go pick up the camera and take some photos anyway and just keep doing it until something starts to shift.
35:20.66
chefcarla_77
This is incredible. Thank you so much for sharing Danielle I I feel like I'm walking away with so many gems and I can't wait to hear what other people have to share after listening to this can you tell us how.
35:40.60
danielle
Oh my goodness. would you mind if I share one last thing before we do that? Okay, so this just is something that I think about so often and even still at fifty I struggle with.
35:44.31
chefcarla_77
Oh my gosh I would love for you to share more.
35:59.22
danielle
And that is really making time for me and my creativity whether it's paid or unpaid like that part irrelevant right? just my own create my own. Inspiration my own engagement my own creativity. Whatever that even means I would call that like my own soul work right? That's the thing that is here. Regardless if all money and all capitalism and all things went away I am still a creative being I my soul still has things it needs and wants to express. Really making time for that whether it's through you know, weekly artist dates. Thank you the artist way one of the most timeless classics that just doesn't seem to go wrong. Um or or something just something that you know ah gives me permission to do that and I'm saying me. And I think that this is so true for so many anyway, it makes me think of this quote from clarissa pincola estas and I'd love to read it with you too. I said with you and then to you but with you and okay so I've seen women insist on cleaning everything in the house.
36:59.22
chefcarla_77
I Would love it please air please share.
37:09.84
danielle
Before they could sit down to write now before I read the west of the quote I want to make a comment here because sometimes I think that comes from an imposed upon us cultural requirement that we have certain duties that we are obligated to fulfill. And sometimes I think that comes from the fact that some of us really need a certain kind of visual calm or order or beauty in order to feel that exhale that allows us to do the other thing and I think sometimes we're not sure which one we are and it's worth Considering. It's worth considering. Okay, so I've seen women insist on cleaning everything in the house before they could sit down to write this next part though and you know it's a funny thing about house Cleaning. It never comes to an end. Perfect way to stop a woman. A woman must be careful to not allow overresponsibility. Or over respectability to steal her necessary creative rests, riffs and raptures she simply must put her foot down and say no to half of what she believes She should be doing art is not meant to be created in Stolen Moments. Only.
38:27.96
chefcarla_77
This is underlying circled highlight I Love her work and it's such a beautiful reminder like art is not to be created in Stolen moments.
38:32.89
danielle
I do too. Yeah.
38:46.47
chefcarla_77
This reminds me that I was I actually stopped cleaning this morning because I read your email and I was like I need to get ready for this podcast and that and that included taking deep care of myself and preparing for this podcast.
39:04.73
danielle
Um, yeah.
39:04.78
chefcarla
And I'm grateful that you brought this essentially full circle for me. Thank you for sharing this beautiful beautiful quote I'll put this in the show notes.
39:09.71
danielle
Um, please.
39:13.60
danielle
You're so welcome I mean I think that's it right? that piece you just said is that included deep nourishment for you. That's what we want to do we want to build the work that really allows us to be our authentic selves and inside of that. It's good for us as it is good for the world. It's not an either or regardless of the systems that we're functioning inside of that are not all built for our thriving.
40:05.83
Chefcarla
Danielle can you share with us how we can work with you how we can find you how we can support you.
40:14.50
danielle
Yeah, ah you can find me occasionally on Instagram at Danielle Cohen Photography my newsletter is probably 1 of the best places to stay in touch and I can give you a link for that or you can find it on my website which is Danielle hyphen cohen dot com yeah and I have lots of fun things I really do have a ah myriad of fun things coming up before the year is over. Yeah, thank you so much.
40:36.80
chefcarla
Thank you Danielle.